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Incel creep: Guys with small dicks should be allowed to have sex with 12-year-olds

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Just no

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By David Futrelle

In case you missed this horror when it appeared on Reddit last week, here’s an ingenious “solution” for incels oppressed by having non-porn-star sized penises.

Any by “ingenious” I mean “so utterly repulsive it may destroy your last remaining shred of hope for humanity.”

In a post on the Incels.is forums with the seemingly innocuous title “Dick Quotas,” a dude calling himself Mainländer announced what he called “a genius idea to make society and the sexual market fairer.”

Prepare yourself.

We all know being a dicklet sucks and foids will ridicule you for it, and most men want to fuck JBs [jailbaits], so why don’t we make the AoC [Age of Consent] dependent on the guy’s dick size?

[inwardly screaming]

If your cock is 3 inches or less, the AoC is 12 for you.
If your cock is between 3 and 4 inches, the AoC is 13 for you.
If your cock is between 4 and 5 inches, the AoC is 14 for you.
If your cock is between 5 and 6 inches, the AoC is 15 for you.
If your cock is between 6 and 7 inches, the AoC is 16 for you.
If your cock is between 7 and 8 inches, the AoC is 17 for you.
If your cock is 8 inches or more, the AoC is 18 for you.

In addition to everything else that’s fucked-up about this tweet — underage girls aren’t prizes to be given out to men to compensate them for their alleged penile shortcomings — it’s based on a bizarrely pornified notion of what counts as a small dick. The average penis size is between 5 and 6 inches, and most cis men have penises somewhere in or near that range. Only a tiny percentage of men dicks that are 8 inches long or larger. And most women don’t give a shit about dick size. This is just an excuse for Mainländer to fantasize about underage girls.

Everyone wins.

Yeah, everyone except the UNDERAGE GIRLS YOU’LL BE RAPING.

In case you’re wondering, Mainländer isn’t some teenager or drive-by troll. He’s posted more than 14,000 comments on Incels.is, and describes himself as being older than 30. (One commenter in the thread refers to him as a man in his 50s.)

No jokes this time. It really seems like this open pedo shit is becoming more common on Incels.is, with an increasing number of incels convinced not only that they’re oppressed by adult women refusing to have sex with them but also because they can’t have sex with underage girls.

Incel forums are toxic in pretty much every way it’s possible to be toxic. These guys aren’t venting. They aren’t providing support for one another. They’re turning themselves and each other into even worse human beings every day they spend on forums like this. And making themselves ever more miserable and bitter in the process.

H/T — r/IncelTears


Creepy, woman-hating white supremacists rush to defense of creepy, woman-hating white supremacist Tucker Carlson

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Tucker, saying something reprehensible, probably

By David Futrelle

As you no doubt have heard, Media Matters’ Madeline Peltz recently dug up a bunch of rather remarkably creepy things that white supremacist Fox News host Tucker Carlson said on the radio some years back.

Talking to noted radio personality Bubba the Love Sponge, Carlson — among other things — defended a pedophile cult leader who’d just been convicted of facilitating child rape; said he “would love [the] scenario” of 14-year-old girls having sex with each other so long as his own 14-year-old daughter weren’t involved; defended female teachers having sex — that is, raping — 13-year-old boys because he feels they’re “doing a service to all 13-year-old girls by taking the [sexual] pressure off” of them; and that women are “extremely primitive” creatures who secretly love it when men order them “to be quiet and … do what you’re told.”

Today, Media Matters posted more audio excerpts from Carlson, this time full of racist rhetoric and white supremacist talking points; among other things, the Fox News host declared Iraqis to be a bunch of “semiliterate primitive monkeys.” 

So, naturally, MAGAs and their far-right fellow travelers are rallying around him, with many figures on the far right not simply minimizing his remarks — as Carlson himself has, by calling them merely “naughty” — but defending his truly repellent views on child rape and women’s alleged inferiority.

More than a few of his defenders are, unsurprisingly, blaming “the Jews” for Media Matters’ diabolical plan to smear Carlson by … accurately reporting things he said publicly to the massive audience of a radio show he regularly called in to.

So who’s lining up to support Carlson today?

Donald Trump Jr, the alt-right-adjacent son of our white supremacist president.

Then there’s the alt-lite grifter and former Pizzagate conspiracy monger Jack Posobiec, who has tweeted in defense of Tucker literally dozens of times in the past day or so. The not so-coded antisemitic insinuation in this tweet is a bonus bit of terrible:

Former Klan leader and present-day dirty old man David Duke was a little less subtle:

Daily Stormer head boy Andrew Anglin not only denounced the attacks on Tucker by “the Soros-backed organization Media Matters,” he declared that none of what Tucker said “is especially outrageous and I agree with all of it.”

Oddball right-wing grifter/conspiracist/supplement salesman Mike Cernovich — who’s had his own legal issues with rape — has thrown his support solidly behind Tucker on the grounds that all the quotes from Tucker are more than five years old and he probably didn’t really say them anyway, since “audio can be edited to say anything,” though he offers no proof that the audio was doctored and actually hasn’t even bothered to listen to it.

Racist conspiracy-slinger Paul Joseph Watson apparently remembered that the best defense is a good offense, but then forgot to make his offense even vaguely comprehensible. What is he even talking about here?

Gamergate dead-ender Ian Miles Cheong offered a similarly muddled defense of Tucker:

Meanwhile, over on the Nazi-infested Twitter alternative Gab, Tucker fans are having an extremely normal one.


Shane Bunting @P1M
10 hours ago · edited
It is GOOD for girls to marry at 16. David Lane taught this. Bernhardt Klassen taught this. Adolf Hitler concurred and so too Tuck Carlson and Varg Vilernes. What's more, the #14Words endorse polygamy as well as the capture and reeducation of thots. David Lane taught it was okay for a guy to be in his 20s "kidnapping" a 16 year old thot. I stand with David Eden Lane.*

ION✔ @Ionwhite PRO
11 hours ago · edited
If the Jews themselves can't bring an alpha white male down, they send in their feminists to do it --- and I predict, it's going to work. They will destroy Tucker. 

Tucker talks just like my dad and brother and any other man in my life whom I love and respect.   Fuck Feminists.  Normal women need to abandon all contact with them, and stop approving of "some" things they stand for. 

Either we are all in with these horrible women or we are all out and act defensively against them - for our own and our children's sakes and the sake of men, there is no inbetween.   Our dads, brothers and husbands, our kids are targeted by these freaks and they will destroy them.

The only way to fight back is to refuse these slags any power over right wing women. These are essentially weak and broken women who can do nothing on their own and who's only power is in mob attack and mob rule.
the Moloch worshippers over at Media Matters took a break from the nightly ritual sacrifice long enough to spray some of the sewage which they consume regularly as part of a campaign against Tucker. 

ok the only pigs here are those who are doing the squealing knowing what's just around the corner.

Our old, er, friend Heartiste — everybody’s favorite racist narcissist “pickup artist” — not only agreed with Tucker; he suggested that Tucker stole his ideas from him. (Never mind that Carlson made many of his worst remarks before Heartiste even started the blog that later became Chateau Heartiste.)


Heartiste @Heartiste
a day ago
If tucker said this, then he is practically cribbing from my blog. 
my god, do you know what this means? 
he gathers his family around to read my blog poasts!

Really swell bunch of fans you’ve got there, Tucker!

EDIT: Added tweets from Cernovich.

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Roosh V blames Satan for his boners. But he’s not the only alt-lite grifter obsessed with the Dark Lord

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Could it be?

By David Futrelle

Our old friend Roosh V is sounding a bit like a fundamentalist preacher these days:

Yes, this is the very same Roosh V who made his reputation, such as it is, and a good chunk of his living, off the sale of books teaching men how to “bang” women in assorted countries, even if they literally tell you “no” thirty times.

Has Roosh really found religion? Somehow I doubt it. I think he likes the idea of religion — or at least the kind of religion that treats sexually active women as scarlet harlots — a lot more than he likes actual religion.

But he’s not the only alt-lite grifter who’s become a little obsessed with the Wicked One and his demonic minions.

After being approached by a young man trying to troll him at Politicon in 2017, weirdo conspiracy monger (and Gorilla Mind pill pusher) Mike Cernovich told his followers in a vaguely frantic video that he was at least half-convinced the troll was “a replicant, a demon” sent to murder him.

As it turns out, Cerno talks about demons rather a lot.

Meanwhile, the more overtly Christian right-wing grifter Jack Posobiec, who talks about Satan and his demons even more than Cerno, seems to have convinced himself that the mascot of the Philadelphia Flyers hockey team — who’s been adopted by internet antifascists as one of their own — is literally some sort of demonic being.

Even Stefan Molyneux, the culty YouTube blabber, manages to work Satan into his racist, woman-hating rants.

James Woods, the famously creepy actor who’s turned himself into an even creepier far-right Twitter troll, is a bit obsessed with a certain famous financial wizard.

But Woods takes care to spread his “satanic” accusations around:

Bill Mitchell, another weirdo right-wing troll, has his own obsession:

Bill, Bill, Bill: I’m a registered Democrat. We don’t serve Satan. Hope that clears things up for you.

In addition to Democrats in general, Bill doesn’t much like Gloria Allred in particular.

This, by the way, is what Bill Mitchell looks like:

In case you’re wondering, I did nothing to this picture other than crop it.

Am I saying that Bill Mitchell is himself Satan? I don’t know, but I can tell you this: I’m definitely not going to be making any deals with him. Or any of these guys, come to think of it.

EDIT: I added the tweet from Stefan Molyneux.

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Roosh V takes the “God Pill,” embracing Jesus after getting super high on shrooms. No, really

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Yes, this is a real photo of Roosh dressed as Jesus that I made into a Blingee. It’s from like ten years ago though.

By David Futrelle

A couple of weeks back, you may recall, our old friend Roosh V complained, in a tweet, that Satan was giving him boners by making women in his vicinity all sexy and stuff. At the time I wondered if the aging libertine, who now spends much of his time fulminating like a fundamentalist preacher, had truly found God, or if he had just decided to namedrop the Biblical villain for, well, the hell of it. I was skeptical.

But maybe my cynicism was unwarranted? The world’s skeeziest alleged pickup artist has now come out as a brand-new Christian. For real.

In a post on the Roosh V forum, he offered some more details on his conversion.

If you’ve been following my work for a while, you’ll notice I’ve been warning up to faith in God over the years, especially the past year. This is due to witnessing the growth of evil in society, my personal experiences with unbridled hedonism, and my sister’s death.

And no, I wasn’t kidding about the shrooms:

This reached a climax when I received a message while on mushrooms which cemented that faith further, an experience which I will share in the future after I’m done processing it. Sure of my path, I decided to publicly “come out”.

Far freakin’ out, Praise the Lord.

While the shrooms might have triggered his “come to Jesus” moment, Roosh apparently had been heading that direction for some time, fed up with the nihilism of “the black pill” — by which he seems to mean his depression as an aging pickup artist who had gotten as tired of “the game” as most of the very young women he tried to pick up had, I suspect, gotten of him.

I believe that remaining black pilled is unsustainable because of the high degree of despair, meaninglessness, and hopelessless it requires, which goes beyond the human ability to handle. …

The God pill does feel like the final destination, where life becomes about asking Him for help and performing His will in a way that embraces good. My mind is currently buzzing with this new perspective, and I wouldn’t be surprised if much of my new work will be framed around it.

So this changes everything, right? Roosh will stop teaching men how to “bang” women even if they physically push you away and literally tell you “no” thirty times? He’ll renounce the pleasures of the flesh and take up the life of the mind, possibly becoming the next Thomas Merton or Teilhard de Chardin?

Well, not so fast. I mean, first of all, Roosh is an idiot, and his theological speculations are likely to be a mixture of the blindingly obvious and the incredibly dumb.

Second, it turns out Roosh’s vision of Orthodox Christianity is a tad unorthodox. His recent “critiques” of hedonism only seem to apply to women, for one thing. Roosh continues to sell the pickup manuals that many see (not without reason) as date rape how-to guides. And he’s still offering “game” advice on his blog.

No, his newfound faith seems to mainly be providing him with more excuses to rail against the alleged evils of the very same “slutty” women he teaches guys how to “bang.”

Here’s his Satan tweet, as mentioned above:

But there are so many more:

And apparently, in Roosh’s eyes, fat women are also an affront to God.

Roosh continues to rail against LGBT people and the “globohomo agenda.”

And he seems to be turning into quite the anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.

Indeed, he’s become such a devoted Jew-hater that he’s managed to get one of his Tweets banned in France for promoting the world’s most anti-Semitic ASMR video. Which, yes, is a thing.

Unlike most conservative Christians, Roosh is a big fan of Islam, or at least of those varieties of Islam that treat women and LGBT people as badly as he would like to see them treated.

So maybe I was right to be cynical about Roosh’s newfound interest in religion. The new “Christian” Roosh looks an awful lot like the old awful Roosh, except that now he sometimes makes references to Satan when he spews his hate.

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“Even in slavery, women lived life on easy mode,” extremely amateur incel historian asserts

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Enslaved femoid trying to escape from her super easy life for no good reason

By David Futrelle

Incels have a lot of thoughts about slavery. When they’re not fantasizing about enslaving women, or comparing their own plight to slavery, they sometimes ponder the history of slavery in the real world.

In general, their thoughts on this subject are not restrained by any actual knowledge, so their imaginations are free to wander. Consider, for example, this post on the Incels.is forum form last fall, in which a fellow calling himself ControlledInsanity asserted that enslaved women have historically had it extremely easy, living lives of happy idleness interrupted only by a few mostly pleasurable moments of sex.

Slavery itself accentuates the inherent value of each gender.

Enslaved men —> physical labor

Enslaved women —> sex

I cannot trick myself into believing that being forced to work hard manual labor is in any way “equal” to being kept to dispense periodic pleasure. Easy mode is not even a meme to me anymore, foids really actually do have a lower difficulty setting aura that follows them through life. All of their greatest successes and all of their greatest hardships are padded by special treatment.

Would anyone on this forum ever object to being a sex slave?

Naturally, a commenter quickly stepped up to praise Mr. Insanity’s post as “high IQ,.” Another congratulated him for his original insight:

i never thought it like that, hell even in ancient times foid slaves had it easy…fuck…..

To be a sex slave you have to be normie tier at least.

Still another contrasted the life of “a man slave” trapped in a life of “torturing labour” to the

female version … forced to lend her body couple of minutes a day to experience rough copulation and maybe orgasm with her owner.

One suggested that many men would kill to lead a life in which they were raped on a daily basis.

Truly wtf is it that what females consider a tortured existence would actually be a godsend for many men?

“Being a sex slave wouldn’t be bad,” added someone called Blue Squirtle.

but [foids] make … it seem worse, how is being a slave for sex as bad as labor? At least sex doesn’t result in getting whipped and beaten it the job isn’t done right.

Uh, I’m pretty sure it did, but never mind.

Still, not all of the commenters agreed that slavery had been a paradise of strawberries and rape for enslaved women. A commenter called JovanD, for example, was pretty sure that female slaves had to work, too.

Are you even aware how much slaves cost back in the day? 

I highly doubt slave owner would have them sit around and do nothing but have sex…

Others suggested that being raped by a “big ugly man” on a daily basis might not actually be all that much fun for enslaved women — or men.

“You know that women really don’t want to fuck ugly, sweaty guys, right?” asked INeed4000Bucks.

That’s why chads don’t need sex slaves. I’m pretty sure the only sex those fat guys would have if they weren’t powerful men is through rape or with no one at all.

Well, to be fair, plenty of women do happily fuck ugly, sweaty guys. But no woman wants to be raped, no matter who is doing the raping.

Mr. Insanity clarified that what he meant by sexual slavery for men involved being sexily enslaved by women, not men.

I get what you’re saying but that isn’t a direct analog. Enslaved women are forced to fuck men, generally not forced to fuck women. I know that in reality, male sex slaves would also be taking dick but, for illustrative purposes, my analogy assumes the male sex slaves equivalent would be forced to fuck women.

And what man wouldn’t like that?

“I think most men wouldn’t mind being raped by women at all,” chirped someone called Frankenstein’s M, who has evidently never spoken to any man who actually has been raped.

For his part, Mr. Insanity was simply incredulous that anyone could possibly think that “fucking somebody you’re not attracted to = forced backbreaking labor.”

I have no words left at this point, so here’s a gif that, while wildly overused, pretty much nails my reaction right now better than anything else out there.

I’m going to go lie down for a while.

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“Jack Corbin,” online pal of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter, wants to force “Attractive Left Wing Traitor Women” to pay “sexual reparations” to incels

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CORRECTION: The original version of this post contained a picture of someone who was not “Jack Corbin.” I have removed it. My apologies.

By David Futrelle

Fascist shitposter “Jack Corbin” — a serial harasser of antifascist activists and a onetime online buddy of Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter Robert Bowers — thinks he’s found a solution to the problem of mass shootings by angry, bitter incels. At least the white ones.

He calls it “sexual reparations.” And he may have sort of stolen the idea from Jordan Peterson. Who may have sort of borrowed the idea from the incels themselves.

In a post on Gab today, Corbin spelled out the basics of his plan:

In a Gab post yesterday, “Corbin” — whose real name is
Daniel McMahon, according to Right Wing Watch — explored this lovely idea in more detail, suggesting that it would play a central role in his presumably never-going-to-happen run for the presidency in 2024.

A presidential run? 8-10 white children? Rapists allowed to sue their sex slaves if their perfume makes them sneeze? Is this all just one big shitpost?

Well, yes and no. We can dismiss posts like these as jokes only if we ignore the fact that Nazis and “edgy” racists use humor as a way to normalize their hateful ideas and make them go down easier, as writer Tauriq Moosa has noted. Daily Stormer publisher Andrew Anglin is a virtuoso shitposter who learned his craft on 4chan; he’s also deadly serious. Both the Toronto van attacker and the Christchurch mosque shooter made references to memes in the messages they left behind to explain why they decided to commit their acts of terrorism.

Another reason we can’t dismiss “Corbin’s” posts as jokes? Because his words online — however hyperbolic or ridiculous they may sometimes sound — have already been used to cause harm in the real world. He’s terrorized antifa activists with threats and by posting their personal information online.

And his words may also have helped to influence Pittsburgh synagogue shooter Robert Bowers in his decision to take his hatred offline, murdering 11 in a shooting rampage only a little more than five months ago. Bowers was a regular on Gab, and while he interacted with a number of well-known far-right figures on the site, the person he interacted most with was “Corbin.”

While “Corbin’s” rants are simultaneously horrific and ludicrous, it’s worth pointing out that his plan for “sexual reparations” is in many ways just a more carefully thought out version of the notion of “enforced monogamy” as a solution to incel killing sprees that was set forth last year by supposedly serious thinker Jordan Peterson.

In order to work as planned, both, er, “solutions” to the problem of incel violence would require women to be somehow compelled to have sex with the sort of men who think a killing spree is an appropriate response to not getting laid.

“Corbin” is fairly clear that these women would be literally forced to have sex, with an implicit threat of violence or jail hanging over their heads. Peterson, for his part, denies that his version of “enforced monogamy” would be, well, enforced in this way, but has offered no suggestions as to what non-coercive mechanism could somehow, er, inspire the women of the world to have sex with men who are presumably having some trouble getting laid now because women may just be able to sense that they have secret shrines to Elliot Rodger hidden in their closets.

Versions of the “sexual reparations” and/or “enforced monogamy” have been common on incel forums for years now. Now these incels have the explicit support of a dangerous self-described fascist with a direct connection to the man who carried out an anti-Semitic mass shooting that took eleven lives. No way this could end badly, huh?

H/T to @scottkernest and @AntiFashGordon, who highlighted “Corbin’s” Gab posts on Twitter.

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Incel Redditor: Women who like their hair pulled during sex “should be treated like livestock”

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By David Futrelle

So, you ask, or maybe you don’t, what are the incels on Reddit getting mad about today? Well, at least seventy of them — to judge by their upvotes — are getting pig-biting mad at a cartoon by a woman who enjoys having her hair pulled during sex.

Specifically, this cartoon:

Posting the cartoon in the Braincels subreddit under the thoughtful title “All girls grow up into degenerate whores who crave to be dominated by Chad,” the incel Redditor who calls himself ASS_F declared:

This is why I fucking despise females with all my heart. Because they all want THIS.

They should all be treated like property. Like livestock. Because this is what they become unchecked. It’s tragic.

Ironic, though, as they love being treated like property by attractive men. It’s only oppression when said man overpowering her is short or ugly.
Uh, seriously?

All this because of … hair pulling? Hair pulling.

Jesus, dude, hair pulling is one of the most garden-variety fetishes out there, so common it barely even rates as a fetish. In terms of “degeneracy” it’s probably up there with “earlobe nibbling” or “nipple pinching.”

But, apparently trying to prove to the world that they can get mad about literally anything, some of the commenters in the thread were less angry about a cartoon character who enjoys getting her hair pulled than they were about the hypothetical cartoon character they imagined was doing the pulling — assuming that the (possibly) Asian woman in the cartoon was dating a Chadly white dude rather than an Asian guy of similar attractiveness.

ldar_ricecel 16 points 6 hours ago 
Girl in the pic looks like a typical noodlewhore too, being fucked by Chad instead of her looksmatch Asian.

permalinksavereportreply

[–]UggoBoss 14 points 6 hours ago 
her looksmatch is probably hanging on a tree.

Yes, this self-described “Ricecel” is an Asian guy calling Asian women “noodlewhores.”

Lol it’s crazy. I walk around uni and I can count one hand the amount of AMAF couples. Noodles by and large fucking Chads multiple points above them while their looksmatch rot alone. Really a clown world.

AMAF, by the way, means “Asian Male/Asian Female.”

As fucked as all that is, it’s not quite as fucked at the comment by this guy, who decided to use this thread as an opportunity to expound upon his vision of the ideal heterosexual relationship.

megaluigi -1 points 3 hours ago 
She'd be my personal slave. Romance is a sham that tries to idealize women. After being blackpilled, what's the point? You know that at the end of the day, she's just another mindless creature, same as the rest of her gender.

True companionship and friendship can only be achieved between males. I can never see women as my equals, and it makes me laugh when I see those cuck marriages where the man calls his wife his "best friend".

Their value is their pussy. This is why I'd rather raise a son than a daughter. At least then, you can properly pass on your values and guide him through the trials of manlihood.

Huh. I thought the Reddit admins had banned all the hate subreddits. I guess none of this counts as hate?

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YouTuber-turned-UKIP-candidate Carl “Sargon of Akkad” Benjamin hits the campaign trail, and it’s going alt-great

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I don’t know why I gave him two heads. Sorry.

By David Futrelle

As you may have heard, YouTube shitlord Carl Benjamin — known as Sargon of Akkad, though he’s actually from Swindon — recently made his debut as a candidate for the European Parliament running on the racist UK Independence Party (UKIP) ticket. And it went alt-great, by which I mean the opposite of great.

First “Sargon” — a genuinely terrible person who originally found internet fame as a #Gamergater — got into a bit of trouble when confronted about an old tweet of his suggesting that he “wouldn’t even rape” a certain female Parliament Member; instead of apologizing he responded to questions by calling the MP a “bitch.”

Meanwhile, freelance internet archivists have been digging up recordings of some of the terrible things he’s said over the years on Youtube, like this froth-mouthed rant blaming feminism for Elliot Rodger’s misogyny-fueled murder spree.

And this creepy defense of pedophilia “on a case by case basis.”

Oh, and Buzzfeed News reported that Mr. Akkad has been sending supporters who want to join his campaign online to a Nazi-infested Discord server.

It’s hard to imagine any of this winning over the voting public, but Sargon’s “bitch” comments are certainly playing well with the internet shitposter crowd.

On Gab, his fans are even less restrained.

And YouTube of course continues to be a cesspool. These are comments on a Sargon video defending his defense of his rape tweet and calling the press “dirty smear merchants” — a phrase many of his fans took to be a reference to Jews.

While Sargon of UKIP seems to be a big hit with the shitlords overall, ‘s still on the outs with a lot of alt-righists — at one point he started a feud of sorts with the more overtly Nazi types that involved him sending interracial gay porn to them — and so there are probably more posts out there describing him as a “cuck” than there are calling him a “chad.”

But hey, the campaign is still young, and he could well win over a portion of his neo-Nazi critics with some new unhinged rant.

Too bad for him — but good for the rest of us — that most of his online fans live outside the UK and can’t vote for him.

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MRAs are outraged that in Scotland, a man can’t rape his wife in her sleep

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Fellas! Here’s a good thing you can do when your wife is asleep

By David Futrelle

If you want to know how Men’s Rights Activists are adjusting to the #MeToo era, well, over on A Voice for Men they’re currently getting mad about a ten-year-old Scottish law that makes it illegal to rape someone when they’re asleep.

In a post originally published on Rebel Priest — a reactionary British site filled with denunciations of such things as “transgenderism,” diversity,and “Cultural Marxism” — UK commercial law professor and former UKIP candidate Andrew Tettenborn laments that in 2009 the “oh so woke” Scottish government passed a rape law that forbid men and women from having sex with someone unable to give consent — including (as one might imagine) people who are literally asleep.

“If you want to have sex with your wife,” Tettenborn complains, “you must always thoroughly wake her up first.”

The editors at AVFM see this law as so self-evidently outrageous that they used this bit of his post as a pull quote:

As Tettenborn sees it, this law — and a recent appeals court decision upholding the whole no-sex-with-sleeping-people part of it — basically

licenses the law in Scotland to poke its nose into what one might reasonably think were the entirely unobjectionable bedroom practices of a fair number of people up and down North Britain.

Not only does he see literally penetrating someone who’s asleep to not be rape; he also seems to think it’s sort of sweet and romantic.

Imagine a long-standing and loving couple in bed: as often happens, she wakes up in the middle of the night with him (again putting matters delicately) inside her, and thereafter both take pleasure in the whole event.

Well, yes, it’s possible that the woman in question might enjoy it. It’s also possible that she will feel completely violated by someone literally penetrating her body in her sleep. The point of the law is that there’s no way to know if she consents because PEOPLE WHO ARE ASLEEP CANNOT BY DEFINITION GIVE CONSENT. BECAUSE THEY ARE ASLEEP.

When you literally cannot know if someone wants to have sex or not, it’s always a good idea to err on the side of NOT RAPING THEM.

It’s also against the law to get people to sign legal documents in their sleep by putting a pen in their hand and moving it around with your hand.

But in Tettenborn’s view, the rights of a man who wants to penetrate his sleeping wife because, hey, she might be into it, outweighs the right of a woman to not have someone put penises or anything else in her while she’s asleep.

Tettenborn is also worried that these terrible women who don’t want to be penetrated in their sleep — or when they’re blackout drunk — could turn around and “blackmail” their husbands or boyfriends by … reporting a rape as a rape.

The possibilities it opens up for blackmail by a jilted or dissatisfied partner are frightening: however much both parties may have previously enjoyed somnolent or drunken sex, she can now put entirely unfair pressure on him and say that if he doesn’t do as she wants she will make a rape complaint, with all the official sympathy and credulousness of the feminist movement behind her, and correspondingly painful consequences for him.

Scotland has a population of 5.4 million. There were 107 rape convictions in 2017-2018. Less than half of all rape cases brought to court in Scotland lead to conviction; this is the lowest conviction rate for any crime. (The average acquittal rate for all crimes in Scotland is 6%.)

So yes, clearly the most pressing rape issue in Scotland today is “blackmail” by some capricious women who suddenly decides she doesn’t like her husband sticking his dick in her while she’s asleep.

Naturally, the comments on AVFM were as bad as the post itself.

“I suppose that Scottish men should stop sleeping in the same bed with their wives,” whined someone called 2cyer.

they probably sexually assault them several times a night by accident, under the definitions that feminists come up with, ipso facto.

“These expanded definitions and all encompassing laws only ever serve to control men interestingly,” complained Andrew0007. “As if the aim of feminism is a totalitarian state where men are strictly and rigidly controlled by … women.”

Andrew literally could not be more wrong. In fact, the 2009 law that outlawed sleep sex was also the first law in Scotland to recognize that men can be victims of rape.

Men’s Rights activists claim to care about the rights of male rape victims. But on AVFM, at least, they’re apparently much more concerned about the rights of men who somehow find it impossible to wait until a woman is awake before they try to have sex with her.

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The “women don’t enjoy sex” dudes aren’t just owning themselves. They’re using the #SexStrike to push regressive ideas about women

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Reports indicate that some women do in fact like sex

By David Futrelle

There are a lot of guys out there who think that women generally don’t enjoy sex. But it’s rare for guys to say this out loud, because they’re afraid of the obvious retort: “Maybe they just don’t enjoy sex with you!”

But apparently Alyssa Milano’s misguided proposal for a #SexStrike has given more than a few men the nudge they needed to stand up and spout nonsense like this:

Scott Gurstein‏ @PLAINSCOTT
 

More
Replying to @heyyguido
Michelle, please stop before you say something that ruins your credibility. Women may CLAIM to like sex, but you really don't.  You TOLERATE it under LIMITED circumstances and during limited time frames.  That's nature's design.  Please be honest now.

Aw yeah, fellow straight dudes, don’t you just love that moment during really great sex when she’s checking her messages and whispering “how much longer is this going to take, jesus fucking christ.”

Oh, but Scott wasn’t the only one telling the women of the world that, actually. they hate sex.

The Common Terrier‏ @TerrierCommon
 

More
Women don’t enjoy sex enough to miss giving it up #SexStrike
The Common Terrier
‏
 
@TerrierCommon

The #SexStrike has already been in progress for decades

That’s not a sex strike, dude; it’s just a really, really, really long dry spell.

MELVIN VINES
‏
 
@MELVINVINES8
Follow Follow @MELVINVINES8
More
Replying to @Alyssa_Milano
Women don’t like sex anyway, that’s why they have pets.

I’m hoping Melvin here isn’t suggesting what I think he’s suggesting, because we already hear too much of that crap from incel forums.

Jones Very‏ @jones_very
 

More
In my experience 90% of women seem to use sex to get what they want. The #SexStrike is just more of the same. Prostitutes gonna barter with their bodies. Are there any women who just enjoy sex, and don’t leverage it to get stuff?

DMs are closed— I’m married.

And what a lucky woman his alleged wife must be! (Especially since, according to his recent Twitter timeline, he also believes that Martin Luther King Jr. — MLK — was somehow part of an insidious Jewish plot involving the god Moloch.)

Michael S
‏
 
@mikemusicman78
Follow Follow @mikemusicman78
More Michael S Retweeted PinkAboutIt  ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Don’t tip your hand Alyssa or men will find out that women don’t like sex, then what? The whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

Wait, I thought House of Cards came tumbling down because the dude playing Frank Underwood couldn’t stop sexually assaulting dudes.

Suidae Empathy
‏
 
@Suidae_Empathy

Replying to @wis10
The #SexStrike proves that sex is only a commodity for women. They obviously don’t value it that much if they think some silly strike is going to work.

Hate to break it to you, dude, but not many women besides Alyssa Milano seem to think a sex strike is a good idea or that it would work.

Discount Angel
‏
 
@EaglePill
Follow Follow @EaglePill
More
The #SexStrike proves that sex is only a commodity for women. They obviously don’t value it that much if they think some silly strike is going to work.

Can someone tell me what brought this on? It’s not another “autonomy for out bodies” shit again, is it?

That sounds … familiar. Do I smell a sockpuppet — or some sort of semi-organized MGTOW propaganda campaign?

In fact, a lot of the guys spouting the “women don’t like sex” line — including Scott, way up at the top — are connected in some way with the Men Going Their Own Way movement, or with the “Red Pill” movement more generally, and, like these last two cut-and-paste tweeters, they’re citing the #SexStrike as proof that women are evil manipulators who use sex to get what they want from men.

Drop Bear
‏
 
@csmunday
Follow Follow @csmunday
More Drop Bear Retweeted Blair
Of course women like you, like the idea of a #SexStrike .  Women have been using the withholding of sex for the purpose of coercive control for centuries.

Your vagina is not the prize
Drop Bear
‏
 
@csmunday
Follow Follow @csmunday
More
Replying to @Kate_Kelly_Esq
The #SexStrike is a perfect example of how women use sex as a tool of coercive control and intimate partner violence.

Not having sex is violence!?

More
Replying to @Alyssa_Milano
So, you ADMIT that women use SEX and their bodies to control men, and to get what they want.

Thank you for clarifying that.  To all my female friends who got insulted and called me crazy when I said this, see here for proof of my claims.

Thanks @Alyssa_Milano !!

#SexStrike
MGTOW Academy  🎓
‏
 
@MGTOWAcademy
Follow Follow @MGTOWAcademy
More
The #SexStrike thing isn’t new. Withholding sex until you get the desired results. We see it all the time, this is nothing new (except that this is funny)...
DonTortugo
Follow Follow @DonTortugo
More
Another great excuse to deny sex to the men women don't desire but exploit under the pretense of having a relationship. Still some wonder why #MGTOW is on the rise.

But it wasn’t just angry MGTOWs and other male regressives who jumped aboard this train; some women used the #SexStrike to push their own backwards notions about feminism and feminists.

Teresa L Holman
‏
 
@TeresaLHolman1
Follow Follow @TeresaLHolman1
More
Replying to @Alyssa_Milano
Man bashers unite! A lot of these women don't like sex anyway. They ain't sacrificing. They have a bullshit reason to really let that leg hair grow wild now.
Kari Baxter Donovan
‏
 
@Saorsa1776
Follow Follow @Saorsa1776
More
#Sexstrike proves what I thought of "feminism" as a little girl, it is a movement for political dominance over weak men. First- you have to weaken men.  The Feminist movement is the greatest #Gaslighting Hoax on all of Humanity.  #MAGA and #QAnon News

The fact that the #SexStrike can be so easily used as “proof” of assorted antifeminist and outright misogynst notions makes pretty clear why so many feminists are opposed to it: not only does it reinforce some pretty toxic ideas about female sexuality; it also just makes no damn sense logistically.

So far nothing I’ve seen captures the absurdity of the idea better than this video, so I’m just going to stop writing here and you can hit play:

NOTE: There was another “as a man I can tell you women hate sex” tweet going around that you may have seen; I’ve left it out of this post because it was evidently from a troll or an impersonator account. All the rest of the tweets I’ve featured seem to be utterly sincere, except of course for Eva’s.

H/T — Thanks to Talia Lavin, who posted screenshots of a couple of these tweets on Twitter.

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“Incels deserve reparations just as much as African Americans,” galaxy-brained incel proclaims

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Here are your reparations, sir!

By David Futrelle

It’s not just Men’s Rights Activists who’ve appropriated the language of the Civil Rights movement in order to further their reactionary cause. The incels do it too — though, incels being incels, they tend to be much weirder about it.

Take, for example, this dude on the Incels.co forums, arguing quite sincerely that incels deserve reparations for being incels just as much as African-Americans deserve reparations for slavery:

[Serious] Incels deserve reparations just as much as African Americans.
 Thread starterEmergency Manual  Start dateMar 22, 2019
 Emergency Manual 
Emergency Manual
Hanging On
-
Joined:Nov 13, 2018
Messages:4,529
Mar 22, 2019

#1
Some people believe African Americans deserve reparations for things that were done by peoples ancestors. 

These same people should support incels getting reparations for allowing our genetic trash families to reproduce. We were never asked if we wanted to be born and the actions of our ancestors has irreparably damaged our ability to be normal functioning human beings.

So I’m trying to follow the logic here:

If African Americans deserve reparations because of the legacy of 400 years of slavery, during which their ancestors were enslaved by the ancestors of others living in the US today …

Then incels deserve reparations because their own ancestors were allowed to have sex, and babies, for many generations, until their “genetic trash” mother gave birth to them.

Mr. Emergency Manual doesn’t specify exactly what sort of reparations he has in mind, whether he’s talking about bags of money or (presumably non-procreative) sex with some deeply unfortunate woman of his choice.

But, hey, the other incels responding to his proposal are ready to get on board regardless.

“We deserve it more,” writes Insomniac, “slavery is a thing of the past. No negro alive today has suffered from it.”

StoicNihilist, whose avatar is Nietzsche holding a gun, agrees:

No joke. I think that people like us (if you are a genuine Truecel) should be able to get financial aid from the government like disabled people. Being ugly in today’s world is effectively a disability. Most employers are biased as hell against ugly or otherwise unattractive people. My ugliness has without a doubt been the cause of me not being able to hold down a job and winding up homeless a few times.

A commenter called Wonder isn’t holding his breath.

Maybe we will in a few centuries. Families that had incels will recieve some sort of compensation. We won’t recieve anything.

Others are less interested in money than they are with being somehow provided with government-issued sex.

“I think the situation is slightly similar to the pre voting rights for black people era,” suggests Truecurrycel. “Sex should be recognised as a human right.”

Naturally, there are some incels convinced that they have it worse today than the slaves did. Adversor, who clearly wasn’t paying much attention during history class, asserts that

Many black slaves still had a black wife and kids. Sure, their lives were pretty shit but at least they had regular sex with the wife and were loved by their kids. Incels have absolutely nothing good in their lives. Slavery is nothing compared to a life of trueceldom.

In fact, slaveowners routinely raped female slaves and broke up slave families. And “not having sex” is hardly the same as the existential horror of literally being enslaved by another person. But you go ahead and feel sorry for yourself, dude.

Angrycurrycel, meanwhile, seems to have learned most of his history from PornHub.

“At least during slavery,” he whines, “white women still fetishized negroes.”

That might be enough internet for today.

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Do Not Bang: Pickup Artist Roosh V embraces Jesus, bans talk of “fornication” from his web forums

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Roosh V: 40-Year-Old Born Again Virgin?

By David Futrelle

A couple of months back, you may recall, the infamous pickup artist and ironic rape legalization proponent Roosh V announced that he had taken “the God pill,” embracing Jesus and Orthodox Christianity, after getting really, really high on mushrooms. (No, really.)

Turns out he was serious, and now he’s making efforts to bring his career, such as it is, in line with his new beliefs.

To some extent, he’s been preparing for this for years. He long ago gave up his quest for endless one-night stands and has instead been, at least theoretically, looking for a wife. Meanwhile, he had more or less abandoned pickup advice in favor of fulminating endlessly about the alleged cultural “decadence” of the Western world on his blog and on his now-shuttered site Return of Kings.

But now he’s actually stopped selling his “Bang” guidebooks, which many saw as little more than country-specific date=rape how-to manual.

And yesterday he took the radical — for him — step of banning talk of “fornication or pre-marital sexual activity” from his web forums, as well as all “pornographic or vulgar language.”

“Due to my recent turn to faith, my sense of morality is becoming based on the Bible,” he wrote in a forum post explaining the new rules.

I’ve stopped a lot of behaviors that I’ve used to do and am in the process of making other changes. I’ve also realized that the majority of my published materials and online platforms lead men into sin or enable them to partake in sin.

No, he hasn’t come to the realization that going ahead and “banging” a woman after she’s literally told you “no” thirty times is not what most people would consider consensual sex. He just thinks that if you do this without getting married first Jesus will be mad at you.

In any case, he’s decided to fight sin with two new rules for his forum, both of which will go into effect at the start of June.

1 .You can no longer discuss fornication or pre-marital sexual activity

Things you can discuss:

-Meeting women with the intention of entering a relationship with them
-Attracting women
-Going on dates
-How to enter relationships
-Using technology to meet women
-How to maintain relationships
-Sexual activity while married

Things you can no longer discuss:

-Meeting women with the intention of fornicating with them
-How to bang
-Physical intimacy with women you’re not married to beyond the act of kissing
-Maintaining relationships with multiple women (i.e. spinning plates)
-Cheating on significant others (adultery)
-Using technology to fornicate
-Discussion of travel destinations which are best for fornication
-Stories of sexual activity while not married
-Promoting masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, etc.

It’s all just a tad ironic, given that most of the things he’s banned people from talking about are exactly the things he wrote about and talked about for a decade in the self-published books, the blog posts, the public talks and the YouTube videos that put him in the spotlight and put money in his bank account.

Rule 2 is only slightly less sweeping:

2. You can no longer use pornographic or vulgar language

-Refrain from using terms like “I fucked her” or “I want to fuck her.” Do not describe sexual encounters or situations that are beyond the act of kissing unless you are married.
-Refrain from using profanity if a cleaner word would suffice.

Roosh is well aware that these new rules, and his new approach generally, could alienate a good chunk of his audience.

I know that I may lose some of you because of these rules, but I can no longer help men lead a life of sin, because doing so is weighing on my conscious. [sic]

I created this forum in 2008 to help men fornicate, so I don’t know if it’s possible to “retrofit” it for another purpose, but it’s worth a try.

So far, it doesn’t look like Roosh’s fans are exactly thrilled with the new direction. While some of his forum regulars are rallying around him, others are pretty far from fucking ok with it, a point they have reiterated in literally hundreds of comments they’ve posted in response to his announcement.

“Is this a hoax?” asked one commenter. (It sure doesn’t seem to be.)

“Your house, your rules,” wrote another. “But this makes Rooshforum kind of like non-alcoholic beer. Or a sex-free brothel.”

Still another commenter offered his own awkward metaphor.

As much as I love roosh, this is the male equivalent of a woman riding the cock carousel and then turning into a nun. censoring everything because she feels her new outlook is the best.

Others were a bit harsher:

I think Roosh has gone off the deep end with this religious BS. Religion once again has destroyed something good in this world (this forum). I’m out. In the end we all will die, rot and maggots will consume us. Enjoy church fellas. Feel free to ban my account.

I can’t say I’m convinced that Roosh is going to be a huge success in his new career as a sort of freelance fundamentalist fulminator.

But as radical as his new direction might seem at first glance, the New Roosh has a lot in common with the Old Roosh. Both versions of Roosh are misogynists through and through.

As a pickup artist, Roosh made clear that he had no respect for the opinions — or the objections — of the women he pursued. He encouraged men to lie and manipulate — and even to hide in bushes — in order to more effectively prey on women, and in one of his “field reports” he talked about using physical force to restrain one of his “conquests” when she withdrew consent during sex. His biggest complaint as a pickup artist in recent years was that women were getting wise to his PUA bullshit — getting harder to trick, and harder to control.

Roosh’s new “morality” is all about controlling women. Even as a pickup artist, he resented the fact that the women he spent his life pursuing were “sluts” with sex lives of their own; now he rails against society for “allowing” women to have this kind of sexual agency, hoping to go back to a world in which men like him are guaranteed young, virginal, “traditional” wives.

So I guess the question now is whether or not Roosh’s fans will appreciate his continuing misogyny — not to mention his homophobia, his anti-Semitism and his other assorted alt-rightish bigotries — more than they’ll miss his always rather rudimentary “dating” advice. We’ll see. However things play out, it’s pretty much guaranteed to be both weird and ugly.

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Did Carl of Swindon — aka Sargon of Akkad — just destroy an entire political party? An analysis, with memes

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Fake news — or all too real?

By David Futrelle

The results are in for the European elections, and as a confused American I have no idea what they mean, for the UK or Europe as a whole. (I’ll leave the explanations to people who understand this better than me.)

But there’s one thing that’s clear to even me: Barring a miracle, the UK Independence Party (UKIP), is toast, and a good part of the blame for that rests on the shoulders of YouTube-blabber-turned-UKIP-candidate Sargon of Akkad, aka Carl Benjamin of Swindon.

UKIP earned a whopping 3.3% percent of the vote, winning the party a grand total of zero seats in the European Parliament. In Swindon, Sargon’s home town, the party scored a little better, but the dropoff in votes for UKIP from the last elections was even more humiliating than in the country at large.

To be fair, most observers agree, the real cause of UKIP’s implosion was Brexit kingpin Nigel Farage’s defection to his brand-new Brexit party, which came in first in the election, boosted by all the former UKIP voters who defected with Farage.

But Sargon definitely didn’t help. Indeed, he may have driven the final nail into UKIP’s coffin. Over the course of his brief campaign, Sargon managed to embarrass himself and his party so thoroughly that neither may ever recover.

He began his candidacy by doubling down on a rape joke directed at a Member of Parliament, and spent much of his time answering questions about the joke and other horrific comments he’d made in the past — including a pretty creepy take on pedophilia (“it depends on the child”).

Also, he got milkshaked, and at one campaign stop he was pelted with fish.

But it wasn’t just Sargon who was constantly getting asked questions about his rape joke and other awful statements; other UKIP candidates spent so much time dealing with the Sargon issue that a top party official told the Guardian yesterday that she thought

Ukip’s EU campaign has been overshadowed by Sargon of Akkad’s disgusting comments and rape jokes and things he has said in the past. That’s very much marred Ukip’s reputation.

Naturally, Sargon’s many detractors online — of all ideological stripes — reacted with glee to his massive failure, prompting one person to post this meme highlighting this rare moment of agreement between Twitterers and the trolls of 4chan.

And then there were these memes:

On Twitter, the jokes and comments were mostly clean, if not always polite.

Things got a little more … intense on 4chan’s /pol/.

Here are a couple of fans defending Sargon and fellow far-right election-loser Tommy Robinson:

We didnt elect Tommy or Sargon

We dont deserve our country. The masses are cattle, brainwashed by the fifth column. We need to be annexed by the US
>>214446035
No one is ever going to vote for someone who is even CLOSE to being a white nationalist, you spastic. They were our best options, like it or not, so shut your cocksucking mouth. 

Yep, yet another little piss-ant on /pol/ talking the talk, but not walking the walk. Come back and vomit your bile when YOU’VE had a go at addressing the problems in your country, faggot. That also goes for the rest of you pansy keyboard warriors.” class=”wp-image-36861″/><figcaption><br><br></figcaption></figure>



<p><a href=Noe everyone was quite so positive about poor defeated Sargon.
sargon is a faggot shill
Sargon was a fifth column meant to ruin UKIP and push them way to the left. He's an absolute libertine and neo-jacobin and an illuminist. He was pushing the legalizing of drugs and promoting sodomy as well as other forms of moral laxity in the public square.
S'rgon was never part of our culture and his own vanity made him a mockery.
Which method do you think Sargon will use to kill himself?

And I guess we’ll classify this Anon as an “undecided, leaning towards no.”

I'll be the first to admit I don't know very much about this "Sargon" but why is it every single alarm and red flag is going off in my brain whenever I look at him.
Even if he's not semitic (is he?) my years on /pol/ have nurtured this deep intuition I've come to trust about false idols and it's telling me there's just something wrong about him.

The memes were a little, er, cruder on 4chan as well.

On YouTube, meanwhile, Nazis and ex-GamerGaters are ganging up on poor Sargon. On the left, Kevin Logan has delivered this brief but edifying analysis:

But the man himself was, at least publicly, unperturbed by his loss and by the damage he did to UKIP, declaring in a new video that. well, he meant to do that.

Sorry, wrong video. In Sargon’s actual video, he explained that election night

went exactly as expected. I know that a lot of people for some reason thought that UKIP were going to do all right in this election and I have to say I’m sure that I made it clear that we weren’t going to.

And he apparently is going to … keep on campaigning and holding debates even though the election is over and he lost?

Because this campaign really was quite a phenomenal thing in my opinion. Now it didn’t translate the polls obviously because there’s too much else going on but we achieved a hell of a lot. We now know exactly how to run these kinds of campaigns and like I said … I’m going to do these bigger and better every month. We’re going to leaflet to let locals know we’re going to be there. That’s going to get the local press involved. We are going to fill out the town squares regarding these debates.

Well, best of luck with that I guess. It can’t go any worse for him than the election itself did.

Who am I kidding? Of course it can, and it probably will.

Oh, by the way, I made gifs.

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This incel is mad that his cousin didn’t sexually abuse him when he was 13

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By David Futrelle

Incels have rather, er, romanticized ideas about sexual abuse. They’re so fixated on the idea that having sex will fix all of their problems that they sometimes fantasize publicly about how great it would have been if their mothers, or sisters, or cousins had molested them when they were young. And sometimes they even get angry that they weren’t abused.

Take, for example, this lovely Incels.co poster, who seems to think that the root of all of his problems is that his then-17-year-old cousin refused to have sex with him when he was a lad of 13. Which would not only have been a violation of the incest taboo, but rape.

[Serious] My cousin was selfish for not helping me escape inceldom
Mar 30, 2019
wizardcel

Lolicon and proud


Messages 1,923
Mar 30, 2019

She never did anything to help me. She never let me fuck her. I was 13 years old when I first met her at my grandmother's place; she was 4 years my senior. My mom had forced me to spend two weeks at my grandmother's place with my cousins. I was miserable the whole time because I had wasted a lot of time chasing after my cousin. I must have tried everything to get into her pants. I even asked her to let me do it. But she threatened to tell everything to my mom, and I was forced to apologize.

She didn't have sex with me because I'm ugly. It wouldn't have hurt her to help me. I would have gained a confidence boost, and my life would have been a lot different. Your family was supposed to be there for you. Your female cousins are the ones who should teach you how to kiss and have sex.

She's 34 now. I don't want her anymore, anyway. She's overweight and has a downie child. I kind of envy her husband though. They met each other when she was still in her 20s; when she was still hot. He must have enjoyed fucking her while I had to content myself with masturbation. 

I like to imagine that her retarded child is mine. I've masturbated so much while thinking of her that I managed to miraculously impregnate her. Lol it's just a silly fantasy though.

This post was so appalling that it ended up getting reposted on the Incel Tears subreddit, a hangout for people to share the horrifying things they find on assorted incel forums.

Naturally, the regulars on Incels.co discovered that this post had made it to Incel Tears, and one of them complained that the people there “never show our reaction. They obviously love cherrypicking us to push a false narrative.”

So let me remedy that.

Yes, there were a number of Incels.co commenters who were repulsed by the idea of someone having sex with their cousin. Like, for example, this person:

Ew I rather remain a virgin than fuck a female relative. No just fucking NO! That's fucking nasty.

But I would be remiss if I didn’t also post some of the other responses.

Should've raped her, now you're gonna be a virgin for life. You cucked yourself.

Wizardcel’s response to this: “I regret not having raped her.”

Oh, but there’s more:

I used to fetishize my sister but I pushed away those thoughts
ain’t nothing wrong with fuckin yer cousin
My single female cousin won’t cuddle with me so I know the feeling man.

Relatives are fine to get physical with as long as it’s only your cousins.
Sometimes we all have to stfu and listen to our wizards.
They are all wise with no exceptions.

Our families should be there for us.

And then there was this weird racist response:

It's strange because situations like this seem to only work for ghetto black families. I've seen tons of cases where black dudes fucked their female cousins and it was just seen as normal, while if anyone else does it they are shamed for incest

I should point out that none of the commenters — whether pro or con on the incest question — seemed to have noticed, much less cared, that Mr. Wizardcel was also glorifying the sexual abuse of a 13-year-old.

For incels, it seems, sex is sex — and sexual abuse is also sex.

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Patriarchy is a lie because men would NEVER oppress their OWN WIVES and DAUGHTERS like that, Men’s Rights Redditor argues, fallaciously

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Henry VIII: Always treated his wives real good

By David Futrelle

One of my favorite would-be “gotcha” arguments I’ve heard again and again from Men’s Rights Activists over the years is this attempt to outwit history itself with powerful MAN LOGICK:

Women could NEVER have been oppressed the way feminists say that they were because men would NEVER oppress their OWN WIVES and DAUGHTERS like that!

I’m not sure which particular MRA brain genius first came up with this argument, but I ran across a particularly pure version of it in the Men’s Rights subreddit recently and thought I’d share it with you all:

The “argument” here is of course fallacious; it’s a textbook example of the “argument from incredulity” — that is, “I can’t imagine how it could be true, therefore it isn’t.” That’s just not how the world works. Plenty of things have happened over the course of human history that have been what historians call “really fucking weird,” but they can’t simply be dismissed, because the evidence is clear that they really happened. (Under this administration, almost literally unbeleivable things happen practically every day.)

And in the case of patriarchy, of course, there’s a huge fucking mountain of evidence that men have not only oppressed women as a class throughout history but still do so today. I mean, it’s not just a weird coincidence that every single US President and vice president has been a dude, or that men got the vote before women did, or that women couldn’t even get credit cards in their own name until the 1970s. There are big fat books about all of this shit, MRA dudes; maybe read one or two of them before spouting off like idiots?

But even if the argument from incredulity was a real and valid argument, and one’s feelings about the likelihood of something happening could trump the facts of history, it’s not actually hard to imagine men oppressing not only women in general but their own wives and daughters.

I mean, men throughout history have beaten and raped their wives; hell, marital rape wasn’t even illegal in all 50 US states until the early 1990s. Men have abused their daughters in countless ways. In the antebellum south, male slave owners raped their slaves and then enslaved the children who were born as a result of these rapes — their own flesh and blood. (Thomas Jefferson, I’m looking at you!)

But of course patriarchy wasn’t and isn’t all about cruelty. It’s also about the very “protection” that firstherr cites in his post. Since practically the beginnings of human history, men have restricted the activities of women in order to “protect” them from the real and alleged dangers of the wider world — a supposed benefit to women that, however they felt about this particular bargain, they could not opt out of.

Patriarchal oppression can be as unsubtle as a punch to the face, or as subtle and seemingly benevolent as Joe Biden telling the brothers of a 13-year-old girl he’s just met that they need to make sure to keep the boys away from her. That’s how it’s been able to last so long.

Again, none of this is news to anyone who has studied even the barest smattering of feminism. What’s still kind of amazing to me, though, is that virtually no Men’s Rights Activists — including the supposed intellectuals in the movement — seem to have bothered to learn even the most basic basics about the feminism that they rail against all day long. instead getting their information from YouTube videos and antifeminist ideologues and other MRAs as ignorant as they are.

That’s why laughable arguments like firstterr’s here get dozens of upvotes when posted to the Men’s Rights subreddit. That’s why these guys don’t seem to have learned a thing since I started following them nearly nine years ago. They’re ignorant, incurious, and happy to embrace logical fallacies so long as they can use them to score points against some imaginary feminist foes.

Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever come across a political movement less impressive than the Men’s Rights movement. Given how completely wrongheaded the basic premise of their movement is — that men, not women, are the true wretched of the earth — fallacious arguments based on utter ignorance seem to be the best that they can come up with.

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QUIZ: Who called #MeToo accusers a bunch of “starf*ckers”— putative leftist Aimee Terese or professional misogynist Paul Elam?

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Aimee Terese and Paul Elam: Bad Take factories

By David Futrelle

It’s getting harder and harder to tell the difference between a certain subspecies of contemporary leftist — the anti-“identity politics” types who take a naughty delight in dismissing their foes as “retarded” — and the pepe-posting assholes of the alt-right and/or the woman-hating dinguses of the Men’s Rights Movement.

Take, for example, the putatively leftist podcaster and Twitter provocateur/bad-take-factory Aimee Terese. Several weeks ago, you may recall, Terese caused a bit of a stir by suggesting that journalist Talia Jane, who had gone public about the skeezy sexual DMs she’d gotten from a male colleague, has such an unbeautiful face that she should have been flattered that any man would “even contemplate ejaculating on it.” (No, really, she actually said that.)

Today Terese is back at it again, posting comments about #MeToo that are virtually indistinguishable from some of the worst things that professional misogynist Paul Elam, founder of the hate site A Voice for Men, has said on the subject.

How indistinguishable, you ask? Well, see if you can distinguish them. One of the quotes below is from Terese; one is from Elam; and one I made up for this quiz.

1) “#metoo is [a] long awaited catharsis for ageing starfuckers everywhere. That time your naked 19 year old self gave a handy to a celebrity photographer is now your trauma ticket to the 15 minutes of fame you were denied back then.”

2) “Elderly ex-star fuckers have seized on #metoo both as a means to take down the alpha males they once idolized and to round up a white knight brigade of emasculated shitlib soy boys eager to tell them they’re still oh so pretty.”

3) “[Prominent celebrity’s] victims? Or just a bunch of drug whoring star fuckers?”

When you’re ready, scroll down for the answer.

.

.

The first quote is from Terese; the third is from Elam (and the celebrity in question was now-convicted-rapist Bill Cosby); the quote in the middle is my best approximation of the sort of rhetoric the two share.

In any case, the answer to the question in my headline is that both Elam and Terese have now publicly called #MeToo accusers “starfuckers,” the only real difference between their rhetoric being whether or not they put a space between “star” and “fuckers” or not.

Here’s the full quote from Terese, in a Tweet today:

Aimee Terese
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@aimeeterese
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#metoo is long awaited catharsis for ageing starfuckers everywhere.
That time your naked 19 year old self gave a handy to a celebrity photographer is now your trauma ticket to the 15 minutes of fame you were denied back then. He and the skin pics are finally going to pay off!

In addition to being a reprehensible thing to say about #MeToo accusers in general, Terese’s tweet seems pretty clearly to be snipe at one accuser in particular: model-turned-writer-and-podcast-producer Jamie Peck, who went public with her story of sexual abuse at the hands of predatory photographer Terry Richardson in 2010 — which was, incidentally, a full seven years before the #MeToo hashtag went viral. Not coincidentally, it also took seven years — and countless other women coming forward with similar stories about the powerful photographer — before publishing giant Conde Nast and several large fashion houses finally dropped him.

As for Elam, here’s a link to a post I did on Elam’s horrific take on Cosby. The quote in question was the title of Elam’s post, in which he also referred to Cosby’s accusers as

a bunch of greedy women who commoditized their bodies like groupies who managed to get backstage at a rock concert.

As it turns out — no great shock here — Terese has had quite a few other terrible things to say about #metoo.

Sometimes she makes an effort to drape her retrograde opinions in Marxoid buzzwords.

Aimee Terese
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@aimeeterese
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The neoliberal feminist girlbosses and their emasculated liberal men denied the fracture, leaning into gender reductionism, #metoo, abortion obsession & trauma porn.
They fetishised bourgeoise womens's rage to manufacture consent for a fantasy that male entitlement was to blame.
The hysterical discourses of our era -#metoo prime among them- adopt a patina of sexual moralism, but the sex is a mere cloak by which bourgeoise ideology propagates & reproduces itself. Discursive gasoline poured on a fire of neoliberal acceleration, atomisation and alienation.
Metoo is a self aggrandising project squabbling over scraps at the neoliberal table, framing justice as gender war (instead of class war) is retarded, and it merely props up the status quo by avoiding structural critique. I’m not imagining utopia, I’m pointing out a smug fraud.

When she’s not spouting buzzwords, she likes to present herself as the True Voice of working women — fighting against the rich ladies and the giant corporations (?) that are supposedly benefiting from the movement.

I've said it a thousand times, #metoo was a political weapon by which wealthy women leveraged career opportunities, it had nothing to do with justice, equity, or harassment.
#MeToo was never about justice, it was about power and ambition; public leverage for those whose delusions of grandeur had been thwarted by the ice cold corporate bog. The dirty little secret is that it was only ever available to women *already* in positions of relative power.
#metoo has done nothing for working class women, deprived pmc women of mentoring opportunities and made them feel less safe at work, but hey Oscar winner, Michelle Williams has been so moved personally and professionally to be a part of the conversation!
No. It isn't. 

Loving the immediacy of the #metoo content sponsored by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, really helps drive home what kind of 'movement' it is, Microsoft thanks you for your service.

Apparently #MicrosoftMeToo comes pre-loaded with Windows 10. But you can disable it in “settings.”

While Terese normally likes to pretend she’s pushing some uber-enlightened Marxoid philosophy when she attacks #MeToo, she sometimes forgets. It’s pretty hard to discern even a pretend progressive impulse behind a tweet like this:

Frigid Women May Be Killing Office Productivity 😜 #metoo

I dunno, it kind of seems to me that a joke suggesting that #metoo accusers are a bunch of “frigid women” isn’t really very funny, even with a a winky-tongue-sticky emoji stuck in the middle of it? But what do I know? I’m probably just some emasculated careerist shitlib soy boy who needs to read more Marx and 4chan.

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Men’s Rights Redditor: Laws against rape are a shit test women use to filter out men who aren’t “man enough to push past protestations”

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What dudes who “push past resistance” actually deserve

By David Futrelle

Today, just another example of the sort of toxic nonsense that gets upvotes in the Men’s Rights subreddit, despite the protestations from Reddit MRAs that they really aren’t about hate at all.

What I’ve got for you is a rather remarkable comment from longtime Men’s Rights Redditor DavidByron2 — a fellow with quite a history of reprehensible opinions — responding to an OP who had argued that “feminism is a shit test to weed out weak men” — that is, that women use feminism in order to figure out which guys are “manly enough” to disobey its rules, because these Chadly anti-feminist rule-breakers are the men that women (even some feminists) really want to get with.

Mr. Byron2 suggests that this applies as well to laws against rape.

Yep, that’s right: he’s convinced himself that “real” — or at least non-feminist women — prefer men who ignore their “noes,” because I guess he thinks these women prefer “manly” date-rapists to feminist men who are so wimpy they’ll only have sex with women who’ve consented to it.

DavidByron2 12 points 1 year ago 
Yes; in the same way that having laws against rape can be seen as a shit test. Of course the real feminists don't see it this way because real feminists hate all men. But for a lot of women that aren't feminists the "shit test" is a way to filter out men that are not "man enough" to break the rules and push past protestations, so yeah, all of feminism operates like a "shit test" for her because she can pretend to take offense at stuff using feminism as a pretext when she's really not offended by any of that stuff, but just looking for a way to filter out "weak" men.

The concept isn't unique to all that dating crap that the Red Pillers go on about. Plenty of examples of females forcing males to perform in nature with many species. Dances, nest building, collecting shit, extreme body parts, whatever. The shit test is the same except the female forces the male to risk social ill will by seeing if they will be brave enough to break the rules. Or something like that.

and if you pass it, you can still end up in jail or broke living on the streets

Yes in some species the female eat the male afterwards. Looks like humans might be heading that way.

I’m not quite sure I’m following his logic at the end, but apparently, for straight guys, only having sex with women who consent to it is equivalent to … having your head bitten off by a praying mantis?

Byron2 got a dozen upvotes for the bizarre rape apologia, because of course he did. I mean, honestly, his argument — awful as it is — isn’t that far off from the terrible anti-date-rape-law arguments of Warren Farrell, the intellectual grandpappy of the Men’s Rights movement, in his still-influential 1993 book The Myth of Male Power — opinions he’s still defending to this day.

But that’s a whole other post. Or maybe two.

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Trump fans have a new woman to hate: rape accuser E. Jean Carroll. And some of them are positively gleeful

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E Jean Carroll and the most famous man on her “Hideous Men” list

By David Futrelle

Trump’s fans have a new woman to hate. Yesterday, New York magazine published a lengthy story by author and advice columnist E. Jean Carroll detailing a lifetime of run-ins with what she called her “Hideous Men” — the most famous one on her list being our current president, whom Carroll says assaulted, then raped her, in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room some two decades ago.

Though Carroll tells her stories with many darkly funny asides — she’s a humor writer who once won an Emmy for her work on Saturday Night Live — her account of the alleged rape is harrowing and very believable. She ends the story with an astonishing confession: she has not had sex a single time since her alleged encounter with Trump.

Naturally, Trump has denied the allegations, falsely asserting that he’d never even met Carroll (there’s a photo of the two together in Carroll’s piece).

But Trump’s fans seem less outraged by Carroll’s supposedly false allegations than gleeful at the chance to go after another “nasty woman,” as Trump likes to call any prominent woman who isn’t a fan of his. As the indomitable Talia Lavin noted on Twitter yesterday, “there are people among the president’s supporters who revel in his rape and cruelty to women.” And for them, Carroll’s accusations are simply another excuse for an orgy of their own cruelty.

Some of them are going after Carroll directly, responding to old tweets of hers with all the viciousness they can muster, many of their, er, arguments based on the premise that Carroll, a winner of numerous beauty pageants in her younger years, is and was simply too hideous to rape.

Just an attention whore looking to sell a book lolol. Get a f'n life lady. Even if Trump was the rapey type you think he'd go for this old ugly bag when he's banging supermodels
Laura Dion-Jones
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@ejeancarroll This is bullshit. Look at this dog. She’d be lucky if @realDonaldTrump looked at her twice & then waits 23 years to come forward? #WeBelieveSurvivors? Not when they’re liars. Just trying to sell books. #ShameOnYou #NiceTry #Trump2020LandslideVictoryBaby

Others made it plain that this new controversy is simply fodder for their larger goal of “owning the libs” and hopefully making them cry.

On Reddit’s ongoing Trump love-fest known as The Donald, the regulars have already launched (at last count) 30 separate threads on Carroll and her accusations, with several devoted entirely to the proposition that she’s too old and ugly to rape (she’s roughly the same age as Trump) and one to spreading a meme suggesting that Carroll is too tacky to shop at Bergdorf.

“Considering that Trump was dating hot ass Marla Maples at the time, this is bullshit,” one Donald-loving Redditor declared.

Did your see how absolutely fucking ugly the accuser is? Im pretty sure even bill Clinton wouldn’t of fucked her.

Others pushed the same, er, argument.

“Stormy Daniels I could maybe see him having an affair with,” one wrote. “This thing? He’s not blind and he doesn’t drink or do drugs.”

Still another added:

Funny how it’s always the pigs that like to bring this stuff up, and not the literal supermodels Trump spent years working with.

The cruelty shown towards Carroll is hardly surprising, coming from Trump fans, as this sort of bullying is basically the essence of Trump’s brand. As Atlantic writer Adam Serwer argued in a widely cited piece, for Trump and his fans, “the cruelty is the point.”

Or current president’s “only real, authentic pleasure,” Serwer noted,

is in cruelty. It is that cruelty, and the delight it brings them, that binds his most ardent supporters to him, in shared scorn for those they hate and fear.

This cruelty comes out most obviously in Trump’s malevolent policies towards immigrants. But he’s just as much of a bully when it comes to mocking the women who have come forward to accuse him of sexual assault and sexual exploitation. “Believe me, she would not be my first choice,” he told his followers at one rally, referring to accuser Jessica Leeds. “When you looked at that horrible woman [on television] last night, you said, ‘I don’t think so.'” The crowd ate it up.

He later derided porn actress and producer Stormy Daniels, whom he had barely consensual sex with shortly after the birth of his youngest son, as “Horseface.” His fans quickly began pumping out the memes.

Yes, this conventionally attractive woman looks terrible if you replace her face with the head of a horse.

But the cruelty of Trump’s fans really went into overdrive after Christine Blasey Ford came forward to accuse not Trump but his supreme court nominee Bret Kavanaugh of attempted rape. After Trump, again at one of his rallies, mocked her less-than-perfect memory of an incident that happened nearly 40 years ago, his supporters cheered, and laughed, and began chanting “lock her up.”

As Serwer noted at the time,

Ford testified to the Senate … that one of the parts of the incident she remembered most was Kavanaugh and his friend Mark Judge laughing at her as Kavanaugh fumbled at her clothing. “Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter,” Ford said, referring to the part of the brain that processes emotion and memory, “the uproarious laughter between the two, and their having fun at my expense.” And then at Tuesday’s rally, the president made his supporters laugh at her.

Social media was quickly filled with insulting memes and other smears from Trump’s acolytes:

Anyone nostalgic for this particular campaign of misogynistic bullying and hate can still buy Kavanaugh-themed “I like beer!” novelty t-shirts on Amazon.

For Carroll, the attacks have just begun. Given that she’s not suing Trump, and won’t be testifying before congress about her experience, it’s highly unlikely that the campaign against her will ever reach the size or the sheer nastiness of the campaign against Ford, who had to go into hiding for her own safety after her moment in the spotlight.

But, as even the memes about her I’ve seen remind us, the attacks on her are part of a larger pattern. (The woman on the right is Carroll.)

In the Daily Beast, Molly-Jong Fast notes that Carroll’s allegations will ultimately fade into the political background with all the other allegations against him, and most politicians will likely conclude “that the American people have forgotten and moved on.” But, she adds in a hopeful finale, “women remember,” and will have the chance to act upon these memories at the ballot box in 2020.

The trouble is that not all of these women will be voting against Trump. If you look at those participating in the Carroll-trashing today, you’ll notice that more than a few of them are women, some of them as eager as the men to attack Carroll as a “dog” who’d be lucky to get a second glance from Trump. And this has been the case in all the campaigns against Trump’s (and Kavenaugh’s) accusers. (You may recall the woman wearing the “Trump can grab my pussy” t-shirt at one of his rallies; Jong-Fast even cites her case herself.)

Like their male counterparts, these women positively enjoy going after Trump’s many alleged victims. For many of Trump’s fans, if not the vast majority of them, his bullying isn’t a bug but a feature — and an open invitation for them to join in. This is the essence of what draws them, regardless of gender, to Trump.

“If you don’t understand by now that the sexual assaults Trump has committed make his base like him even more, I’m not sure what to tell you,” writer and BitchMedia cofounder Andi Zeisler wrote on Twitter yesterday.

We can only hope, along with Jong-Fast, that our anger at this cruelty can overpower the cruelty itself at the ballot box. Because if it can’t, this country may be beyond redemption.

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Creepy Incels agree: “If you’re old and never had teenager love, then you’re entitled to have a Jailbait”

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Marilyn Monroe, a hideous old hag of 35, in Some Like it Hot

By David Futrelle

Self-described “involuntary celibates” want the world to pity them as decent men who have been cruelly denied sex by too-picky women who reject them for the tiniest of physical flaws. This is absurd in itself, but it’s made even more absurd by the fact that incels themselves tend to be pickier about women than any mythical Chad-chasing Stacy.

Incels don’t just want sex with any woman; they feel that they’re owed sex with women “in their prime” — that is, young, conventionally attractive, relatively thin and, oh, did I mention young? That is, not women at all but teenage girls?

Incels — not all of them but a lot — exalt “teenage love” over all other forms of love and sex. And if they don’t get “teenage love” when they they themselves are teenagers, they think they deserve it as adults. The very thought that a man in, say, his thirties should be having sex with “old” women close to his own age fills them with rage.

In a recent posting on Incels.co, a prolific contributor to that site with a Dylann Roof avatar and more than 5000 comments to his name, asked angrily “How the fuck does society have the AUDACITY to tell oldcels to stick to older women[?]” In case you didn’t pick up on his bad mood, the poster, calling himself Turbocuckcel_7000, tagged his post with the popular Incels.co tag “RageFuel.”

Turbocuckcel made his case:

And by the way, when he demands some credit for not “ruining someone else’s future wife,” he means by having sex with her, because in the incel brain any woman who isn’t a virgin when she marries is basically a used-up harlot.

In any case, a commenter called Cuyen, with more than 30 thousand Incels.co comments to his, er, credit, quickly took Turbocuckcel’s argument to its logical conclusion, declaring:

If you are old and never had teenager love,then youre entitled to have a JB

Someone called Tempus Edax Rerum popped up with this bit of bad history:

The funny thing about this statement is that less than a hundred years ago this was actually how it worked.

Well, no, it wasn’t. In 1920, the median age of first marriage for women was 21.2, true, but the median from men was 24.6 — an age gap of less than 3 1/2 years. (Today, the median age is 27.8 for women, 29.8 for men, boosted slightly by the recent legalization of gay marriage, which meant a sudden rush of older couples marrying.) Looking this up literally took 30 seconds.

Turbocuckcel, naturally, agreed wholeheartedly with Cuyen’s rule, adding that the situation contemporary non-Chad men face is

a massive ripoff. like it’s not bad enough how you are likely to just be used for your money and divorce-raped as an oldcel loveless faggot anyway, you need to get the stinkeye from every sanctimonious fuckface in a 5km radius too if you have an age difference greater than 3-4 years in your favor. …

i’ll probably dream about dating and marrying a 20 year old girl even as they’re shovelling dirt over my coffin

Your dream is every twenty year old “girl’s” nightmare, dude.

Someone called Bernd worked himself into quite a lather:

I know, it’s always “ew grow up”, “immature”, “creepy” and “can’t handle an independent woman sweaty?”

It’s not like everyone can afford to live on 1000% of normal dopamine levels in their youths like females do. They live in some sort of hedonistic sinful version of the garden of Eden and fuck through waves and waves of Chads AND get stuff handed to them FOR FREE. This is somehow less big of a deal than men dating younger women.

It’s somehow “less big of a deal,” because the only place any of this happens is in your head, dude.

LMS-maxxed older guys [guys who’ve maxed-out their Looks, Money and Status –DF] fucking prime pussy deserve it. Because it is hard. Imagine through how much shit normies go to fuck 18-24 year olds that are below their looksmatch. Now picture it at 35+.

If you’ve worked your fucking ass off in life and got nothing to show for than a used up single mother wooing you with her requirement list, then it is not wrong to want even a tiny share of the enjoyment in life that foids get for free as a birthright.

Time to pull out this gif again:

that's not how this works. that's not how any of this works.

Incels: Using their delusions to stoke their resentment and justify their predatory desires.

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Skidmarxists Amber A’Lee Frost and Anna Khachiyan trash feminists, liberals and Antifa in an interview with Spiked

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By David Futrelle

So what does it mean that two of the most prominent young alleged leftists are winning high praise from the performatively heterodox reactionary site Spiked?

Today Spiked published a puff piece interview with skidmarxists Amber A’Lee Frost and Anna Khachiyan, the former an irregular co-host of Crappo Chap House Chapo Trap House; the latter the co-host of the gleefully “edgy” Red Scare podcast. And it’s as bad as one might expect.

The problem isn’t just that these two — and the rest of the skidmarxist gang — are getting a big wet kiss from Spiked, but that they are happy to go along with the whole embarrassing spectacle.

Indeed, as if to prove her edgelord (edgelady?) bona fides up front, Khachiyan greets Spiked interviewer Fraser Myers with her version of the endlessly repeated alt-right joke “I identify as an attack helicopter.”

Among the most refreshing things about Frost and Khachiyan is that their politics are resolutely not woke. ‘You can tell people that I’m trans’, says Khachiyan, with characteristic irreverence, as Frost, Khachiyan and myself sit down to talk at Eastwood in the Lower East Side. ‘I’m not trans, but you can say that just for fun.’

Great. At a time when trans people face a huge and organized campaign of hate from the right and from transphobic pseudo-feminists, let’s just start off the interview with a half-assed transphobic joke.

Sounding more than a little like the faux-leftist version of the Honey Badger Brigade — the mostly female gang of antifeminists associated with hate site A Voice for Men — the two quickly throw feminism under the bus, with Frost dismissing it as little more than a female power trip fueled by whining. “[I]t’s, ‘Men are rude to me and they explain things to me,'” she tells Myers. Later she complains that, because of feminism, young “women today aren’t allowed to want a traditional relationship.”

As for #MeToo and sex positive feminists’ focus on sexual consent, well, the nicest thing the two can say about these things is that they’re nerdy.

“It’s because these people would rather negotiate sex than actually have it… They don’t want to take responsibility,” says Khachiyan. ‘That’s why nerds love this stuff’, says Frost. ‘It’s huge in Silicon Valley. They like games and rules. These are people who consider themselves leftists but probably don’t like anything about socialism except the gulags.”

What a sensible and reasonable reaction to … the idea that people shouldn’t be forced into sex.

And somehow this all relates. in their minds, with an inability to commit to relationships.

Khachiyan says ‘a lot of these people are tyrannical narcissists’. ‘They are noncommittal, incapable of tolerating conflict or taking consequences. So they would rather have a system like polyamory where you kick that can down the road.’ Frost adds that many millennials ‘think they can eliminate jealousy… But sometimes you’re going to have bad sex, sometimes you’re going to be jealous. It’s not the end of the world.’

The two pretend that their hostility towards feminism is based on their own much purer support of the working class.

‘I fundamentally think they are disgusted and horrified by working-class people’, says Khachiyan. ‘Real women don’t live up to the liberal-feminist pieties’, adds Frost. ‘And I think that’s very threatening for the uptight, white, overeducated, liberal women to be confronted with’, replies Khachiyan.

Meanwhile, Frost is part of a podcast that takes in more than $1.5 million annually from its Patreon and that is basically the Platonic ideal of Brooklyn hipsterism.

As for liberals trying to fight the literal fascist in the White House, Khachiyan trashes them as “nerds” — no, really — and dismisses their criticisms as little more than snobbery.

The problem with liberals, she says, is that “they can’t differentiate between their political critiques of Trump and their aesthetic critiques of him.” … It is not so much Trump’s policies that anger the liberals, but his brashness, his demeanour.

Never mind Trump’s racism. Never mind the literal children suffering and dying in concentration camps at the border. Never mind the rollback of basic rights for women and LGBTQ people. Liberals just don’t like his hair, or the way the guy talks.

The two are equally dismissive of Antifa, with Khachiyan declaring that

All these people who say they are anti-fascist don’t know what it means to be persecuted.

Myers ends the post with a paean to the two and their “dirtbag leftism.” (Er, I may be a little biased here but I believe that the correct term is “skidmarxists.”)

Voices like these, challenging woke orthodoxy and standing up for traditional left values, are needed now more than ever. Here’s to the dirtbags.

When you’re getting that sort of praise from reactionary publications like Spiked, how much of a leftist can you really be?

The answer is none. None leftist.

It would be one thing if these two were just some aberration, just two weird reactionary mutant frogs in an otherwise healthy leftist gene pool. But there are a lot of other skidmarxists out there — from Twitter bomb-thrower Aimee Terese to “independent journalist” and regular Tucker Carlson guest Michael Tracey. They’ve even got their own subreddit, r/StupIDpol, with more than 13 thousand subscribers.

So we’re going to be dealing with this bullshit for some time. What joy.

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